What if there really is no "You"

last SG · 2007-12-24T13:53:55+00:00

... the thing is, if you believe that the "self" is a composite (non-inherent) then what is that which is carried over to the next life? If you do not believ...

Deino SG

i dun see any point.....

if we die it does not make a difference to the world.....in your case we become one with the world...returning into matter....wait.....what am i saying...in your case you shouldn't be returning into matter but basically just break down into individual atoms......

and from the way that i see it in this perspective that "we do not exist" i still see that we are a mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter.......we are mere virus......and viruses knows nothing about sin and crime......therefore there is no wrong to turning or breaking down another matter into smaller pieces.......if we dun exist than pain is just a delusion....did the dinosaurs ever knew that their inexistance would bring the world to pollusion? or to inflict damage on others?

AndrewPKYap SG

if you say, "when hearing, just the sound", you have escaped from reality because "just the sound" is not reality. There is a lot more than "just the sound".

I would even say that if you teach, "when hearing, just the sound", you are teaching the opposite of what Buddhism teach. That is, mindfulness and awareness.

The be aware, is to know what is beneath the surface. It is to know that "when hearing", IT IS NOT "just the sound" but to be aware of full reality instead of "just the sound".

AndrewPKYap SG

... if we are mere "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter.......we are mere virus" and that is the reality?

... do you prefer to live life in a delusion or reality?

For you to conclude that a "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" cannot be conscious, and that "there is no wrong to turning or breaking down another matter into smaller pieces" is, as I have pointed out, a "a non-sequitur fallacy".

The "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" is also conscious. The conscious "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" is unlike "the dinosaurs" that are conscious only in a limited way.

The human "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" is conscious. You have to say why a "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" and is conscious, "knows nothing about sin and crime".

AndrewPKYap SG

... that would work for someone with no goals, no dreams, no difficult decisions to make.... Laughing

AndrewPKYap SG

... that's what you hope issn't it? That you can make digs about people's pic and if people make digs about you back, it is not acceptable and they are vain? You are a simpleton with simplistic thoughts. Laughing

Zarks SG

wow… continue arguing plz.. dun stop this thread

Herzog_Zwei SG

... that's what you hope issn't it? That you can make digs about people's ideas and if people make digs about you back, it is not acceptable and they are vain? You are a simpleton with confusing thoughts.

Zarks SG

hm this is not a good thread..

Why dont we all learn more bout self-existence instead of critisign each other..

We have someone who learnt philosopy and someone who has wide knowledge bout Buddha learning. Both of them can give us better knowledge bout self-existence. Why dont we learn something from philosophy and Buddha way ?

Andrew.. what i can see here is that people are here to post what they think or to share bout what they know.. and you? You are here to try to "brainwash" people into your ideas? Dont you realise it ? You think yourself as a human with a perfect flawless thinking ?

From what i can see, no one starts to tell anyone stupid or idiot or dense.. it is you who started this calling to people who dont agree with you? So you think you're smarter than all these people who just wanna share their thoughts in this topic?

Have you forgotten that you said "in trying to look smart, makes a fool of himself" ? Well, mayb thats wat u see in most people here but we think that sentence suits you better. Let me add something " .. and a fool doesnt realised that he is actually trying to look smart"

I would have respect u better if you keep your thinking but since u started calling people stupid and so on, i lost my respect to you.. It just proved how ignorant you are and how childish that you have become. This is sad. You really dont know what is going on with your attitude.

Deino SG

all hail zark

noahnoah SG

Life is so simple

just do waht you want to do

why bother about what there is really no you or what

does it really matter? Laughing

Deino SG

no party at your ark ah?

why never let me join

An Eternal Now SG

This is just an example. Everything arising arises by itself, in itself, and liberates in its own accord, without a separate perceiver. It is self-knowing.

BTW, read carefully. It says authenticated with every arising. So it's NOT only the sound.

'Just the sound' means there is no extra imputations (i.e a perceiver and a perceived) but experiencing it in bare, naked, awareness, i.e. mindfulness/awareness. What is the mindfulness I'm talking about? Please read: Mindfulness (Sati)

Please also read this thread: How to practise Vipassana (Insight Practice) in Daily Lives?

HyperionDCZ SG

HAHA Demon I feel your pain. Relax friend, its not worth the stress trying to reason/debate with this guy. I've done some philosophy and work on existentialism, but my knowledge on this subject pales in comparison to yours.

Nevertheless, I'm quite amused by the fact that Andrew starts all this without even the ability to use any philo terms (which reflects his knowledge/comprehension of the topic at hand).

To be honest, I think Andrew has had an interest in this subject (which is admirable in its own right) but hasnt read up enough on it or done enough research. Therefore although he seeks to debate and discuss the topic, his abilities to do so falter when someone more knowledgeable comes along.

And to Andrew, I didn't really take the time to understand 7 pages of what you're getting at (the original post was too basic). But medical research has in fact shown that our self-awareness, consciousness and ability to choose are simply the workings of the neurons in our brain. For example, a person with a failure in the posterior parietal cortex in his brain would not have free will. While people who are very severely autistic actually have no sense of a "ME".

So medically, there is no self, but neuron functions. And self is simply the name that we apply to what these neurons make us feel. If you take an alternative, non-medical stand, then SELF does indeed exist, as the concept that we create to explain what we feel or to romanticise the dull reality; and will die with the brain.

An Eternal Now SG

Oh ya Andrew, lots of people are waiting for your reply in my forum Laughing

AndrewPKYap SG

.....................

AndrewPKYap SG

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

This is just an example. Everything arising arises by itself, in itself, and liberates in its own accord, without a separate perceiver. It is self-knowing.

BTW, read carefully. It says authenticated with [b]every arising. So it's NOT only the sound.

'Just the sound' means there is no extra imputations (i.e a perceiver and a perceived) but experiencing it in bare, naked, awareness, i.e. mindfulness/awareness. What is the mindfulness I'm talking about? Please read: Mindfulness (Sati)

Please also read this thread: How to practise Vipassana (Insight Practice) in Daily Lives?[/b]

... you see, now you go back to extreme emptiness... in extreme emptiness, there is no "perceiver and a perceived" and in extreme "form" there is only "perceiver and a perceived"...

To them that says, "emptiness" only, you teach "form" and to those that says, "form" only, you teach emptiness....

AndrewPKYap SG

You want to know why it is important to know reality?

Let's look at the extreme. You imagine and believe that you can fly. You jump down from the top of the building and you kill yourself.

Of course you can say, "but I am not delusional to that extent!"

Well then, to what extent are you delusional, then?

Some people of course do not care. They fumble along the road of life. They acquire beliefs to guide them.

What if you want more? What if you want to know reality and work out what is real for yourself?

Sure, you can don't bother, but some people want to know. They want to know because they take pleasure in knowing. There is an ecstasy that comes with understanding. You can see people's faces light up when they realise something and say "Oh I see!"

There is also the issue of whether or not you want to, for example, be a manager and make decisions that influence others or just do a simple job. It is up to you but if you want more out of life, then you would want to know reality.

An Eternal Now SG

No, I'm talking about conceptual perceiver and conceptual perceived, i.e. there being a perceiver separated from an object.

In reality the pristine awareness is in all manifestation. In seeing, only the seen, no seer. In hearing, only the heard, no hearer... etc. Sound arises, scenery arises, they're all pristine awareness.

An Eternal Now SG

"Who is there?" asks God.
"It is I."
"Go away," God says...
Later...
"Who is there?" asks God.
"It is Thou."
"Enter," replies God.

...

I have been asked, "Isn't observing a dualistic practice? Because when we are observing, something is observing something else." But in fact it's not dualistic. The observer is empty. Instead of a separate observer, we should say there is just observing. There is no one that hears, there is just hearing. There is no one that sees, there is just seeing. But we don't quite grasp that. If we practice hard enough, however, we learn that not only is the observer empty, but that which is observed is also empty. At this point the observer (or witness) collapses. This is the final stage of practice, we don't need to worry about it. Why does the observer finally collapse? When nothing sees nothing, what do we have? Just the wonder of life. There is no one who is separated from anything. There is just life living itself: hearing, touching, seeing, smelling, thinking. That is the state of love or compassion: not "It is I," but "It is Thou."

~ Zen teacher, Charlotte Joko Beck, author of 'Everyday Zen'

Fateemah SG

When humans can perfect artificial intelligence and create robots that can think, we will finally realise that intelligence does not imply the existence of a soul.

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